Had/having an interesting discussion with a reader of mine who takes a different position on this country.
<<initial email>>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JCM mailto:@cornell.edu]
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 2:36 PM
> Subject: Fair Share Tax Reform
>
> Hey, I know I haven't used this list in a while, but check out the
> following video, and ESPECIALLY if you live in NY state, please
> forward to as many people as you can, friends, family, coworkers...
>
>
http://fairsharereform.com/page/s/20k>
> The decision on this is going to be made in the next few weeks so it's
> important that there be a bit of a groundswell. Thanks!
>
> Seph
>
<<My Reply>>
>
> Fair share? More like a Leftist misnomer.
>
> Personally I think it's rather encouraging that the Marxist mentality
> of punishing success was not being exercised in NY. Why should one
> man's dollar be taxed more than any others? Seems to me that the
> wealthier the individual the more they consume (pay tax on) and the
> more jobs they create (15% Tax per employee). This email, and any who
> praise such an effort, is an affront to America and her forefathers.
>
> Allan J. Ashinoff
>
<<His response>>
I agree with you under normmal circumstances, except that in Ny we're facing a 15 billion dollar budget deficit that if left untreated could result in hundreds of thousands of middle-class workers losing their jobs: hat's teachers, healthcareworkers, state employees, prison guards, cops, etc. -- alot of people whose livlihoods depend on the state. These people on average make about 35,000-50,000 per year, which means the majority of their income is used up on staples like groceries, rent, clothing, unlike the very wealthy who have money in savings. Money in savings doesn't contribute to the economy: money that is spent does.
That's why the rich need to be taxed at a higher rate, to keep middle-class people employed and spending on goods and services during a recession. If the latter lose their jobs, they will have to recieve unemployment beneifts, which will further drive up the costs to the state and also wipe out consumer spending among the middle class, which in turn will exacerbate the economic downturn to dangerous levels.
The answer is to generate revenue by taxing people who can afford it at a slightly higher rate to close one of the worst budget deficits in Ny state's history: this isn't about "punishing success" but preserving jobs and preventing a recession from turning into a depression. Nearly every lawmaker I know in NY state -- even the conservative ones -- now see the logic in doing this. It's the responsible course of action.
s.
<<My Reply>>
The rational consequence of overspending (corporate, personal, or otherwise) is to cut back and not steal more. Perhaps the social entitlements in NY (which there are many) should be scaled back. Perhaps government is too fat in NY and it's time to streamline services? I no longer live in NY so I can't speak first hand on the inner workings of its politics, but I do know that punishing those who provide jobs only results in fewer jobs be available to those who depend on other people for an income. After all a poor man never gave anyone a job.
It amazing to me how quickly some seek to reach their hand into the pocket of another to "take" what is legitimately not their own. I'd support a 10% flat tax on sales.
Atlas Shrugged.
Allan J. Ashinoff
<<reply>>
I agree that cuts are necessary, but not to the extent that you punish the biggest provider of jobs, which is the NY state government: the "social entitlements" you so blithely suggest should be scaled back include the full range of middle-class jobs, from teachers to firefighters. This is the problem with conservatives: your attachment to free market ideology completely blinds you to the social realities of how people actually live in this country: in your way of thinking a public school teacher who makes 50,000 dollars a year in a seriously demanding job is a superfluous "social entitlement" deserving of being "scaled back."
And just out of curiousity, what about drug rehab clinics and homeless shelters and day care programs? How about the Salvation Army, or the Syracuse Mental Health Center, or the Greater Rochester Community of Churches? Because these are the places that are getting cut. Really tell me, is day care unnecessary? Is getting people off drugs? How far is your insane hostility towards the state going to take you?
<<My reply>>
Therein lays the problem. The State is the biggest provider or jobs. When politicians run the show (who in general are not business men) when it comes to employment you have a situation like NY or Louisiana or Michigan. I have little to no sympathy for a state which continually elects liberal politicians and creates a society based on State dependency. You get what you deserve....hence the problems in NY, NJ, California, Louisiana, and Michigan right now. Your mess, you clean it.
Jobs like firefighters and police are a necessity. But there is no reason teacher and rehab counselors can't be privatized for profit. I'd even think the post office can be eliminated entirely with email use and very efficient private carriers. Homeless shelters? Church. Drug rehab? Church. More church community involvement and less liability would erase those issues in a heartbeat. It wouldn't cost the State a dime and it would strengthen our communities(which could reduce crime and save even more).
Closer to home, deport all the illegal aliens and you'd do a world of good for our economy on a variety of levels. Had this been done earlier our banking bailout wouldn't have been necessary.
Social reality....I can take care of my own. I have no desire to take care of anyone I choose not to. Yet there are those who feel and even demand that I should. I was raised thinking I was born to the undeniable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? In practice I understand that means the responsability to care for yourself with the sovereignty of person to own without contest what you earned. It also means the responsibility to own your success or failure. But liberals and left leaning moderates have no idea whatsoever what that means. Bailing out is nothing more than a usurpation of authority, dominion, and accountability. Its high time east coast states who vote for liberal trash learn that voting superficially has consequences.
AJA
From: JCM [mailto:@cornell.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:24 AM
To: Allan J. Ashinoff
Subject: RE: Fair Share Tax Reform
All I can say is I'm glad you're not in charge: oh wait a second, you have been, for the last forty years, which is why the country is so screwed up.
The reason the conservative movement is finished in this country is because the philosophy you outline here has proven to be completely
unworkable: you want to privatize everything, go ahead, but don't be surprised when katrina is what you get, don't be surprised when the iraq war is what you get, don't be surprised when a failing healthcare system is what you get, don't be surprised when Abu Grhaib is what you get, don't be surprised when Blackwater is what you get, don't be surprised when abdication of responsibility to the public is what you get. Political freedom means the right to be a participant in government, or it means nothing at all: it certainly DOES NOT mean the right to "take care of my own" -- there's another word for that: survival. And liberty and the pursuit of happiness is about a whole lot more than survival....
Ironically, it's survival that causing more and more people in New York State to keep electing Democrats, even in the most rural, conservative areas, where people have traditionally voted Republican: the reason for that is when people's lives and jobs are on the line they abandon the romantic, idealistic thinking that characterizies about 90% of the modern conservative movement and vote according to realities a little closer to
home: their stomachs.
<<My Reply>>
I suppose I have a really difficult time understanding those who require a leash and feed bowl in order to live. You see I own my own business and have for more than a decade. That means I work for myself. Good times or bad, what I have is mine and earned with my own hand, my own mind, and my own back without any help from anyone else (especially government). I've made decisions for what I thought was best for me and for mine (that being my family AND my employees), reaped the benefits and suffered the consequences of those choices. I asked for no handout and no hand up from anyone. Sadly, that is what it once meant to be an American. What we have now is DEPENDENCY...that desire is flatly un-American.
Katrina? Really poor example...DEM controlled city. They should have evacuated well before Katrina hit using the resources their "masters"(no racial slur intended) left sitting underwater. Katrina is a great example of Federal government's inability to micro-manage the country. It's also a prime reason why state government should supersede federalism related to matters of that state. That is what it once was to be a pre-1861 Republic. The founders DISTRUSTED centralized government for reasons many are starting to understand now.
Iraq? We'll have to agree to disagree there. I vehemently support any action against Islamic terrorism (directly or indirectly). I have personal reasons that most opposed simply can't relate to. Abu Grhab? Hell, a vacation resort compared to being beheaded on TV or having your corpse dragged through the streets being pelted by stones. It's a war, shit happens (and we are far nicer than our enemies in this regard).
As stated in the prior email. NY made its bed now it has to make the necessary adjustments to correct its political social ideology. But fear not, I have great faith in today's whining cowardly masses to adjust the taxes to support its bloated bureaucracy. Even if that means raping those who succeed in life and provide the very jobs NY needs to pull out of its doldrums. It's exactly what Europe has done for years... its called wealth redistribution.
Eat the rich, no?
AJA